The day has come!

[melfice]

Wiseman, Do you seriously believe that ZOE 2nd runner graphics are low detailed, or simple? Have you seen the whole konami page, and still believe so? I think that those visuals are much more an style decision than a "hardware" bench-marking. And i also don't believe they are either low detailed or simple.

Zelda WW graphics are what Miyamoto wanted them to be, no more no less. Same as Metroid prime grpahics, Also, Miyamoto doing. Games are not benchmarks, as a good friend of mine says "Gaming is, mainly, having fun"

[mrwiseman]

Low detailed? Yes, a gear full of flat surfaces and sharp corners with a texture and a half and a bunch of nice FX is not my idea of "detail". This is detail.

If that anime guy is real time, I have to say it's a nice work (and very suitable for the PS2, which sucks at texturing), and with that style, cel-shading doesn't suck (it does when the character it's a little SD cartoonish kid), but it isn't as nice as Goraud or Phong anyways, and it produces low detailed, low colored, mostly untextured graphics. But is that realtime anyways? I doubt it.

[Xellos]

Yet again, the only person who's SD ina ll of Wind Waker is Zelda, Ganon looks much better than before, and Link looks just like a 1 y/o kid, which is what he is

[melfice]

That image was from a promotional video i've also seen.

1st:Textures make miracles, in that meaning, you got a point. I've seen really detailed environments in Shenmue, so, it is detailed indeed

2nd: I've seen detailed environments in ZOE 2 also, in another video, showing real time scens of an assault done with lots of objects, quite complex, i'd say. their textures are simple, that is true, but it also comes with the fact of what the object represents.

Military objects use not to have rusty details, but shiny, and perfectly flat surfaces to reduce the air resistance, for example.

3rd... Er... okay. The anime is not real time rendered [img]tongue.gif[/img]

In the page of the game there are also moving examples of the game in action. i think that even if they are so dependant on transparency and light effects, they have a really nice artistic quality, as they represent non existant, and complex objects.

[mrwiseman]

IRT Melfice:

2nd: I don't care if they actually wanted to represent a simple thing, if we say that a game showing a gear has nice details because that's how it was intended to be, then the Pong game has the best detail ever - it's just exactly as it should be, with 2 bricks and a ball.

I think ZoE games, as well as Metal Gear, are brutally overrated games everybody says their graphics rock for a while, then they get tired of it and admit the Dreamcast did 3 times better things.

3rd: As I thought, the PS2 is not capable of that. PS2 developers have to rely on cheap, lame FMV to show what they would want to do if they had a good hardware to work on. FMV doesn't count (except artistically-wise) to me, it's something the Saturn already had.

I don't think it has 1/20th of the artistic value games like Grandia II or Shenmue have. Also, the special effects are superb, but great graphics can't be made out of effects alone, this is no demoscene, we're talking about games which should have enormous environments with characters so detailed you can see even their sweatdrops.

[One Classy Bloke]

Whats so great about seeing people sweat?

[mrwiseman]

It was just an exaggeration on how detailed games should be.

[Cavalier]

heh, its not a big deal graphics fun etc, is wut matters anyways

[melfice]

Yes, but as you said, games aren't demos, so, detailed graphics are done when they are really needed. Most of the times, an RPG, perhaps, only needs 2 characters, in a simple environment.

In my opinion, ZOE is a game that has really good graphics because it is not like Metal Gear, it is a robot shooter, and it needs lots of enemies running up and down the screen, while you control the robot there.

Also, it has the anime Cutscenes, As a gamer, they are just fine... a video that even MegaCD is able to play.

As an anime fanatic, (i'd need to see them!) i think that they are really cool. It is, I like games, and i like anime, so, a game which has anime cutscenes is perfect!

The point is: Are detailed graphics really needed? When the story requires so, yes, if you don't need them, then, you still can do a fully 3D rendered Pong.

[mrwiseman]

Are detailed graphics really needed?

If they aren't, go play your MegaDrive.

That's what I always say - I'm not spending 200? on a new system to play the same games. Gameplay and story are the two main things in a game, but I already have that for free. So if I'm paying for a new system, it's because I want nice graphics as well. And besides, why all that technology, wasted like that? Graphics aren't essential, but they add to the game. You can make an RPG with 2 chars, a scroll plane and no sound, but it'll be much better if it looks like Grandia II, and it'll be able to pump more emotions out of you as you're seeing a beautiful scene while listening to a wonderful soundtrack.